HAVE THE CONVICTION TO ANSWER THE QUESTION!
Has anybody seen the buses about "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life." I think it's amazing talking point, and I can't believe Christians are complaining about it!!!! Would we really want to shrink away from this.
The things I would love to discuss with people are this.
Is a probably enough to stick your life on?
Does God want you to worry?
And why does Christianity stop you enjoying life?
See: www.humanism.org.uk/bus-campaign
posted by Rev. Alan Gibbon @ 9:14 PM
17 Comments:
Hey guys, the BBC is reporting this discussion thread and there's nobody taking part in the discussion!!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2009/01/advert_wars.html
It is entirely typical of course. The Internet shows up and drags grammar into it.
Regardless, I think people in general miss a point about God - He doesn't want you to worry. Why would God be God if he actually wanted to inflict pain and suffering on everyone who tried to follow him?
I can see where Joe Public gets the idea that Christianity would stop you enjoying life. But I see no validity to it.
God, for me, has given me something to do with my life. Something to shoot for. Something to take a bullet for. God has given me a reason to live.
God is not a Church. Churches are full of humans who moan and grumble and talk with sharp tongues. Don't let Church hold you back from God.
I don't think a 'probably' is enough to live your life on, however, I believe the reason the Humanist group used this word is because it's the only way they'd be allowed to have them displayed without being in breach of the Advertising Code. 'Probably' is so that there is less scope for them to be removed for causing offence.
The 'stop worrying' is for the benefit of non-believers, who, according to the Bible will go to Hell.
As people who do not believe in God also generally do not believe in the after-life or (eternal life), then this is the only one they will have which is why they are urged to enjoy it now.
I applaud your response to this campaign and this is why I disagree with the person on the BBC website who said you were wrong to use the phrase 'There PROBABLY is a God'. Clearly this was used to mimmick the language used by the original advert.
The 'bus campaign' is simply to annoy believers in God, I feel. It only speaks to people who are already atheists and isn't powerful enough to make somebody convert to atheism.
Humanists may have actually caused harm to their cause with this one.
See...I'm not so sure who will go to hell and who won't. Would God really send an inherantly good person to hell just because he might not believe in Jesus?
I am not annoyed by this bus campaign, I really do feel that it's a great oppertunity. We should welcome the debate not shout them down.
And yes the 'probably' is about the mimic of their advert
I think we need to be very careful with this ad - I consider it extremely subtle and its real purpose very far from its face proposition. The ad has the advantages of overt simplicity: just a short clear message expressed in bold colourful type. Behind the spare surface, however, lies a wealth of subtle persuasion. I want to draw your attention to just one layer of suggestion.
The ad buys into success. There's the loaded word 'Probably' and an immediate association with cool brand Carlsberg. This company's advertising campaigns have redefined 'probably' into a knowingly ironic understatement of an absolute. From the first word then we are being told Atheism is a young, cool-speaking, successful brand. But it does not end there, what, we should ask, was the the subtext of the Carlsberg ads, what was the embedded command? That command was none other than Go on - indulge yourself! If that suggestion sounds familiar so it should. It's the age-old archetypal lure of the serpent. In the myth of Eden the serpent tells Eve "Go on - indulge yourself!". When Christ walks the spirit path after 40 days of fasting he encounters Evil and what does Evil say to him? In essence: "Go on - indulge yourself!". This advertisement is not saying connect with the world, engage with society, find meaning and purpose; it is saying there is no way there's a god, there is no moral frame of reference to inhibit (worry) you, Go on - indulge yourself.
I think it might be instructive to take a look at Ariane Sherine's blog. Ariane was the mastermind of this campaign. For me the entry for 30 December 2007 says it all:
My advice is: don't watch the news. (Don't even read it if you can help it, though I might be alone on this one.) Focus instead on other things: on all the millions of people who are alive and healthy and enjoying their lives, on happiness and truth and kindness and all the concepts which don't make good copy in the slightest. Live in a dreamworld, and pretend it's not happening.
As Theo's brother says in 'Children Of Men', when Theo asks why he doesn't feel depressed about the apocalyptic horror taking place around him: "I just don't think about it."
Hi. P Didymos
I think you are right and when we focus on the word 'probably' the the beer adds do come to mind and this idylic world that they paint.
This is why we need to engage with the subject, not go to the ASA or walk off our bus, that turns our back and people dismiss us. Have to admit, I thought I would have got more comeback on this...but hey...
As for the things of this world, there are too many people living in a dreamworld whereas, the reality is we live in this world, and whatever mess it's in, we have the potential to turn it round
I'm not sure that we can achieve anything by discussing whether this advertisement is a good or a bad thing. It has been done, and is currently on our streets; there is nothing we can do to change that, especially since the Advertising Standards Agency have authorised its use as 'unlikely to cause offence'.
However, we can have faith and pray. Our God, in whom we believe and trust is greater by far than anything man can say or do. He is able to overrule this for His honour and glory, to make people who normally would not think about God at all wonder 'what if the probably is wrong?' No power of Satan can withstand the power of God.
All this attention not only opens the debate but it will inflate the ego of the original poster.
Hi debroah, I suppose I'm not really wanting to discuss whether the advert is a good or bad thing. But yes it's a good way to get people thinking and start discussions and anonymous, I will tray and keep grounded and not let the sparkle of the blog limelight go to my head!!! Think most of the talk has been about my grammer anyway, just enjoy the debate.
or even try!!! and keep grounded
p.didymos,
I think that is interesting. The idea of them turning this into a brand rather than just an advert. Clearly the word ‘probably’ does have allsorts of ‘cool’ connotations that will immediately remind people of the Carlsberg advert, “Probably the best beer in the world”. Probably in this case is obviously, from the perspective of the advertiser, more of a certainty than a probability. And this subtle but cleaver word choice implies that it would be the best way. Why, if Carlsberg made cat food, would it probably be the best cat food in the world? Because they’d make it the best it could be, they’d put time into marketing it, they’d strip it down to the core and make it the way they wanted to, with time, energy and commitment.
The same is being suggested here, I think, with the humanist ad. God probably doesn’t exist, so let’s do things properly – the way they were meant to be. Let’s live life to the full and not worry about hell, or sin or eternal life. Why? Because they probably don’t exist.
It will be interesting to see where the Humanists go next after things with this ad have cooled down a bit. Will they now be on a roll and publish more ads? There certainly seems to be no shortage of donors willing to put money towards these ads. Will they push the ASA further next time? Will they adopt ‘There probably isn’t a God’ as their brand? Time will tell.
sorry but this is complelely random, dad - how many times are you going to spell grammar wrong, it's an 'a' not an 'e' sorry for being picky!
Love you daddy :D
Advertising campaings, buses carrying messages and blogs criticised for grammer, what next?
At least the debate is out in the open and the word God and God, himself has been restored to our everyday language.
I place a message on the discussion forum that we should perhaps 'sling the humanist society a donation' for they have given us a platform to engage in the discussion again and they started it!
As for grammar, grammer!!! or excessive use of exclamation marks, whatever! At least the debate is out there now and God is back amongst those who dared not mention his name.
As for the 'ego' of the original poster, (I taught him everything he knows) well, we all have egos and they can be inflated or deflated accordingly. Surely the most important part of this debate is not the grammer, not the ego but God himself.
We are thinking again, we are debating again thanks to the campaign. Maybe 'anonymous' meant Cogito Ergo Sum - I think, therefore I am!
Me, I am waiting for the next bus to come along and it probably won't be on time, so we can debate with each other until our bus arrives.
The march of the Dawkinists.
While i admire much of the rationale, and intellectual debate that humanists and Dawkinists present, i am nevertheless disconcerted by the promotion of their convinced belief in material reality. It encourages hedonism, greed and selfishness. There is no bigger picture simply because they cant see it therefore it does not exist. (according to them) 'There probably is not a God' fair statement, as fair as ; 'there probably is'.
Scientific athiests cannot or refuse to believe anything that cannot be quantified or deliberated which is fair enough but why try to convince others?
dy
Hi Tom, It is good to be talking about this kind of stuff, but we are talking about being given the oppertunity to discuss. And not really moving forward, where is the debate? Am I just in the wrong place to be involved??? As for ego, when your own daughter pops along and questions your grammer, you know you are grounded!!! Love you too Robyn.
As for the march of the Dawkinists. Someone pointed out on the Will and Testament blog that there seems to be a line of thought that wants you to disconnect (not to watch the news etc.). Is that not partly is wrong with society?
And Pete, do you not think that if people were to really listen and understand the real meaning of Jesus' words then we might have a chance to do things properly. Cause, lets face it only 6% (ish) of people in the UK go to Church and is society really doing that great about stopping worry and enjoying life?
Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium?
Help, please. All recommend this program to effectively advertise on the Internet, this is the best program!
It was certainly interesting for me to read this article. Thanks for it. I like such topics and anything that is connected to them. I definitely want to read a bit more soon.
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